S2E02: A Stage for Connection
Small-town theatres often bring in live music or plays. So what happens when the audience stops sitting in the dark and becomes part of the cast itself? In a rural Saskatchewan community, Every Brilliant Thing is bringing audiences directly into the story. Host Merle Massie talks with storyteller Elizabeth Nepjuk and director Stephen Waldschmidt about the one-person show, written by Duncan Macmillan with Jonny Donahoe, and what happens when a theatre audience becomes part of the performance.
As Merle discovers firsthand, people in the crowd are soon tasked with reading lines from slips of paper, taking on the roles of a parent, a friend, even a sock-puppet counsellor. By the end of the play, the audience becomes a roomful of witnesses who’ve helped tell a story about depression, suicide, and reasons to stay alive. Biggar & District Arts Council member Annette Fecht says “it really puts into perspective, you know, how big some of these little things are, how important they are.
We hear how the crowd shifts from rowdy to quiet, as randomly selected audience members stretch the show with improv of their own. The show veers from funny, to heavy, to tender, creating space for rural audiences to reflect, connect and leave with a sense of hope.
We love hearing your ideas, comments, and stories. Get in touch with Merle by sending your e-mail or audio message to feedback@domore.ag.
Real the full transcript below
Elizabeth Nepjuk 0:00
This show has been described as an invitation. What would you say it's an invitation to? And the number one answer that I get every single performance is conversation and connection. And it shows us that when we're in those depths, we need to connect, and when we see someone who's in those depths, we need to connect. Because the only way we can save each other is to stay connected.
Merle Massie 0:35
I'm Merle Massie, and this is Hay Are We Okay. Have you ever wondered what you can do to make a difference for mental health in your community? Hay Are We Okay is a podcast about ideas, stories, things that communities are doing to grow a culture of well-being. Regular people like you and me out there making a difference. We choose these stories because I'm a farmer and I live in rural Canada. So if I'm excited and inspired, I hope you will be too. Today we're looking at the way a stage can open a conversation. There's a play called Every Brilliant Thing, written by Duncan Macmillan and Jonny Donahoe. It follows a single person who builds a list of things worth living for, things that are brilliant. And that list balances the hard things in their life. It's been performed on stages from the U.K. to New York City and right across small town Canada, including the prairies. What makes Every Brilliant thing stand out is it is not just a play. This episode celebrates what happens after the curtain rises, and long after it falls. Thank you so much for joining me on the Hay Are We Okay podcast, and I'm going to ask each of you to introduce yourself.
Stephen Waldschmidt 2:23
Okay, my name is Stephen Waldschmidt.
Elizabeth Nepjuk 2:26
My name is Elizabeth Nepjuk.
Merle Massie 2:28
Stephen, I'd like to start with you. Where did you first hear about every brilliant thing? How did you come to be connected with this particular production?
Stephen Waldschmidt 2:37
Yeah, so a friend of mine who's an actor and playwright in Calgary had seen the show when it was touring the original from the UK. And we were talking about plays, and she was like, "You have to find this script. It is amazing. And I tracked it down and read it from the library, and it was like I don't usually laugh out loud if I'm reading something sitting by myself, but it like literally made me laugh out loud and made me like tear up over and over again. And I couldn't put it down, and I just was like I don't know, visceral experience of feeling gripped by the story. And it's like, well, there's no way that they'll let us do this. It's the show that's been touring all over the place, and we're a little little bitty theatre company in Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, and they gave us the rights, and we were actually the first company, first Canadian company to produce it after the the original tour. It's an unusual show because there's one person on stage, but there's another seven characters in the play. And audience members get pulled in to play those those roles. And the way that the way that Liz does that, and the way the script is structured, it it actually does it in a very beautiful and hospitable and fun way that everybody's taken care of. Nobody's made fun of, or nobody feels left out to dry. And by the end of the play, the audience -- I mean, in the story, the audience sort of turns into this mental health support group. But in in reality, in the play, in the theatre, it actually feels like that.
Merle Massie 4:27
So, just for those of you who are listening, the background is is that I got a chance to see Elizabeth lead the production of Every Brilliant Thing in Biggar, Saskatchewan in I believe it was April of 2025. And I too was absolutely blown away. But Elizabeth, I'd love for you to explain what happened. How many shows did you guys do in Saskatchewan? What it's like to do shows going around rural Saskatchewan with the Organization of Saskatchewan Arts Councils [OSAC]?
Elizabeth Nepjuk 4:56
What was it like? The tour in Saskatchewan was eye-opening for me for a number of reasons. First of all, I had never heard of OSAC. Living in Saskatoon, I never, you know, had the reason to interact with that association. And then, as I toured, I realised how important it is in the province and the way that all of these smaller towns are able to see a lot of really amazing acts. Like there's some fantastic musical acts that go around, and we were one of the very rare theatre productions to be able to make a tour. But being one person with a small set certainly helped that, haha. It was eye-opening because I saw communities I had never been to. I met some really incredible people who shared some really incredible stories with me. I learned a LOT about mental health in rural communities, not only how prevalent suicide is, but how difficult it is for people to access supports, partly because of isolation and distances to travel, but also because of money. Like if if you have to travel into a city, that alone, just the gas money to do that, and if you have to stay overnight, you know, all of those little expenses. I learned a lot about farmers and what it is to have your mental health depend on your income. And I don't know, it was it was kind of embarrassing to be honest, being a prairie girl and knowing so little about the prairies. And it was life changing and wonderful, and it it lit the fire underneath me that helped me to continue the production here in Rosebud, and continue to reach out to people.
Merle Massie 7:08
Thank you for that. Now shift. Tell us about your experience in Rosebud. For those of you who may not know, there is a little town of Rosebud, Alberta, that has a theatre, and they have been putting on productions for many, many years. And right now, every brilliant thing I'm catching Elizabeth almost at the end of the production run at Rosebud, Alberta. Elizabeth, tell us about what's happening with Rosebud and what the audiences there are saying to you.
Elizabeth Nepjuk 7:39
Well, in the talkbacks that we hold after the show, there have been some beautiful thoughts, some really profound ideas, and some really inspirational stories shared with me and stage manager Shelly-Ann Morgan.
Stephen Waldschmidt 7:57
And during the curtain call, Liz goes around and and gives kudos to each of the audience members, and people cheer for them. And and then at the end of the curtain call, Liz just says, "I'm going to step outside and grab something to drink, and just change my shirt, and I'll come right back. And anybody who wants to stick around and chat with me and Shelly-Ann about your experience of the play, and just get to know kind of a little more about it." And we'll chat a little bit about folks' experience of mental health too. And it's been remarkable how many people stick around for that. Some shows we've had like the entire audience stay, which is is really remarkable. And Liz, you tell me how the talkbacks are going. We usually tend to like ask, you know, what is, what was something that surprised you? Or what's an image, or is there a line from the play that is like stuck in your memory? And then we invite people to talk about whether they saw themselves or a loved one in the story, and sort of do a little bit of conversation about mental health. And the last part of the talkback is like, what would you put on your list of brilliant things that are worth living for? And we also then refer people to there's some some mental health resources in the program. Sometimes when we can, we've had like a mental health professional in the audience, and just kind of let them share some of their experience of the play or a community elder. Yeah, it's pretty informal. What would you say, Elizabeth?
Elizabeth Nepjuk 9:32
First and foremost, people need to talk about how they're feeling. And it's beautiful because you can see everyone's everyone who chooses to stay usually has gone through something emotional or cathartic, and really just want to stay there and and express that to me and to anybody else who chooses to stay. I find that because of the way this show is presented, in the round, and with lighting on the audience members so they can read pieces of paper, everyone is very present with each other. And there is a witnessing that happens. Because every time someone is pulled up on the stage, everyone is there to support them and wants them to do really well, and is so involved in the story and what that person's going to do next because it's always going to be -- every show is different for that. Usually, it's the dad who really takes me on a wild ride. But after all of these people have gone through this community building 80 minutes together, so many of them want to stay and share how they feel, share their stories. Lots of people want to talk about their own struggles with mental illness, with addiction, Or often, there are stories about supporting people who've gone through those. Many people want to share stories about their loved ones who have taken their lives. And it's it's honestly quite a privilege for me to sit there and and hold space for those people who have felt seen by the work that I've just done. So they sit there for 80 minutes and and hold my emotions, and then for 10 minutes, I have the honour of doing the same for them.
Merle Massie 11:37
What a privilege, as you say. When I saw the production of Every Brilliant Thing in Biggar
Elizabeth Nepjuk 11:54
That was my first one!
Merle Massie 11:56
It was! It was your first one, and it was in the afternoon, and it was a production specifically geared to high school students. So the local high school sent all of their students from Grade Seven to Twelve. Came and had the afternoon, and they were in the audience to watch you give that production of Every Brilliant Thing, to be involved in it. So there were multiple kids, of course, who had things that they had to read out as part of the show, or come up on stage and do things. And it was a highly interactive theatre production. But I also understand that in your tour of Saskatchewan with the Organization of Saskatchewan Arts Councils, that that wasn't the only high school student group that you were able to perform in front of. Can you talk about what that was like, to perform in front of high school students and with high school students? Because of course they were performing with you, right? You know, and participating. Tell us about that experience.
Elizabeth Nepjuk 12:53
I loved doing the high school shows because it is, oh, high school shows are different for so many reasons. And part of it, and the part that I get the most joy from is seeing them really identify with me in the child and teenager phases of the show. When I'm doing it for older audiences, you can see they don't identify with it as much. They think it's cute and and endearing, but they're not there with me, feeling it the way the teenager does. And Burnt Thicket has been, along with Every Brilliant Thing, has been doing this thing in the lobby called "What's on Your List?" Where all of the audience members are encouraged to leave their own brilliant things on a post-it note, and that they put out in the lobby. And at the end of every show, it's beautiful, and there's dozens and dozens of these post-it notes with wonderful things that people are grateful for and that they treasure. And one of the biggest things that I love about the high school shows is what the high school students write on those post-its. They're not as -- they get a lot more anxious about being up in front of each other because it's really hard to look uncool, as we all know. And that's a harder thing with the high school audience. But the brilliant things and the questions afterwards are so profound and come from a place of such deep vulnerability. Like these are folks who haven't had years and years of experience of loss, of people in their lives taking their own lives. They're still very raw to death and to mental illness. And they're also experiencing it in a different way than any other generation has. They're talking about it a lot more. They're surrounded by conversations of it on all different forms of media. And so their understanding of it and their willingness to talk about it is so different and so rewarding as a performer because I'm able to have-I don't know how to say-I want to say more relevant, but that's like -- more current conversations, more up to date. Like we we talk about news that has happened in the past week. You know, it's wonderful though. It's a completely different show.
Merle Massie 15:41
That interactive nature. Let's lean into that for just a second, Elizabeth, as a as an actor, when you're you know, you're the only one on the stage, and yet you are basically turning everyone in the audience into part of the show, active members of the show. There's there's different things that people need to read out at different points in the show. Sometimes you're pulling people up on stage to to act alongside you. That does introduce a whole lot of element of raucousness and a whole lot of element of play. How does that affect you as an actor? And how do you think that that changes Every Brilliant Thing, as opposed to say another kind of show where they just sit there and they're very passive?
Elizabeth Nepjuk 16:25
As an actor, it's terrifying (laughter) because it could change everything, and that was my biggest fear in rehearsal. I've never done anything like that. I've done a lot of shows where I'm breaking the fourth wall and talking at people, but never one where they can talk back to me. [show sounds] As soon as we had our first audience in Biggar, it became so easy.
SFX 17:01
"I'll read 315. I'll say 315, and you'll read this out. It's really easy. No one will look at you"]. It's just you have to trust the audience, and as soon as you do, they trust you back, and you can just play with them. And a big part of this play is being a good host. "They gave me your number. I know this is super inappropriate. I'm one of your ex-pupils, the kid with the list. I don't. Do you remember me? I do."
Elizabeth Nepjuk 17:40
And I think Stephen did a really good job of encouraging that in the process of being like celebrate people, no matter what they do. If they come up there and take a dump on the stage and it sucks and the show is impossible for you to continue doing, make sure you're celebrating them.
SFX 17:57
"Cinder's ready to listen. Hi Cinder. How are you? I'm good. Let's hear about you. Well, I'm talking on the phone to a sock dog, so obviously I'm not great. Um, Cinder, I'm sad. I'm really sad, and I don't know how to fix that. And I wanted to talk to you because when I was little, you knew me better than anyone. And I wanted to ask you: Do you remember what I was like?"
Elizabeth Nepjuk 18:42
Enjoy everything they do, even if they're terrified and screwing up what you need them to do in the moment. Love it and love them, and I think that has really been the spine of the show is love. And I think holding space for people and whatever they choose to do gives them a sense of comfort and freedom and joy and play. And whether they're injecting my dog with, you know, the the drug to put him to sleep, or whether they're holding a piano for me, or whether they're giving a speech at my wedding, they feel supported by the crowd. Because the crowd has been invited to support them. The community is so strong, and they all want each other to do well. There's nobody sitting in the audience going, "I hope you fail!" You know, like this is -- it's just a team. You build the team immediately as soon as you they're in the room. And you're giving out papers and you're talking to them and you're making them comfortable with the space and with you. It's really about being a good host, and I really love doing that.
Merle Massie 20:04
When I hear about mental health support, I tend to think about counselling and call lines. Elizabeth found something else. She found small towns are looking for chances to come together, chances to start conversations that otherwise might never happen. So I'm going to break the fourth wall myself. I wanted to know who brought Every Brilliant Thing to our town, and what it took to make it happen. Here's Annette Fecht. She sits on the Biggar and District Arts Council.
Annette Fecht 20:43
Our Arts Council board is a collection of individuals ranging in age from high school students right up to those individuals that are retired. So we have a very broad spectrum as far as interests, a very diverse group. So how it works is every year October-ish, arts councils from around our province are invited to a showcase. They alternate years between Regina and Saskatoon, and this company actually condensed and presented their entire hour-long show in a 15-minute time period. And we take notes watching the different productions and things. And the Saturday night, we sit down, and together we actually cast our votes in, yes, this is what we want to see. We have a chance to talk about it. And what I think is really awesome is that you know our 16, 17, 19 year-olds, have as much input as our 60 year-olds. So it's a very, you know, diverse group giving their input. And there was I would say out of the eight members that saw the production, seven were 100% all in. We had to do a little bit of a sell to convince that eighth member. Actually, one of our youth members took it on as a Spark presentation. And it was her responsibility to be, to just orchestrate and coordinate the whole event. She was the one that was delegating who was responsible for what tasks. She was the one responsible for communicating with the artist and very forward in pushing to have this presentation at the school as well. Unfortunately, she's in university, so she couldn't be the one that introduced the act for the school show. But she did it for the night that it was there for our community. We had very positive feedback because you think you think depression, you think suicide, you think oh my goodness this is going to be so heavy and overwhelming. But it was a real conversation starter. It was like wow, like we never would have thought of things like that. Like this was so different, but different in a good way. Because sometimes we'll do something a little edgy, and it's like, wow, that's not what I expected. But this received a lot of positive feedback, which was fantastic to hear. We see a lot of music, and that sort of seems to be what's expected, but we like to broaden horizons and offer different opportunities for our community. Our goal is to bring the arts to our community, but also to expand our audience. And I think it really, it really puts into perspective, you know, how big some of these little things are, how important they are. Just looking for the bright side in everything we do.
Merle Massie 24:12
Annette Fecht is with the Biggar and District Arts Council. And like she said, an arts council can bring more than music to rural communities. And those different things can spark different conversations. Stephen, one of the things that you shared with the Do More Agriculture Foundation is a simple handout that you guys share as part of every show. Can you speak to the importance of of that handout, what's on that handout, and why you include it.
Stephen Waldschmidt 24:46
When we were first working on the first production of it, we knew that we wanted to include ways to connect the play to real life. Like that's one of the things we have always done with Burnt Thicket is had resources in the program. Or it's through a talkback or whatnot. But it's not, we're not doing plays that are propaganda or whatever, but they're plays that are about things that actually matter to people and that that can really make a difference in how we see the world. I mean, on one side, it's a very funny comedy. Like, I don't know if I've ever laughed out loud so much in a play other than in this show. Which in, on just that kind of like roller coaster ride part of the show. It's super fun and entertaining, and not heavy. Like oh, it's a play about suicide, but it's funny? On the other hand, it is, there also are lots of heavy, significant, serious moments, and the the topic is challenging. And it's hard for people to talk about. And it's often like scary to talk about mental health. But if it's a funny, if it's fun and it's entertaining, and that's the way this this play is is arranged, that it's incredibly funny. And like you walk out of it inspired and uplifted, even though we've just talked about suicide and death and mental health, but it's hopeful. And I think that it it creates space for people to talk about things that we don't want to, but that are really necessary. It also like I think breaks the ice and like breaks a lot of the stigma about things. It does lots of educating, but without -- without it feeling like it's like they're teaching you anything. So yeah, it has this educational side of it as well as like everybody in the room at the end of the play? Like yeah, we could -- we could talk to somebody about this. And even there, there's one of the characters, Mrs. Patterson, who is just a random audience member and has to talk through a sock dog and actually like offer some counselling to Liz's character when she's in depression. And like, nobody wants to be in that situation except maybe maybe people who've gone into counselling, psychology, psychiatrists. Because they're really gifted with that. But I know for me and a lot of people, it's like, well, I'd be afraid of saying the wrong thing. But in the play, mrs. Patterson can say anything, and Liz finds a way to like receive it as a gift. And it, even when it's not something super profound, it's like this person has encouraged Liz, and it helps her take a step to find help in in in another way and go to a support group. And and like anybody could like, well, I could talk to somebody like Mrs. Patterson did, if that if that's what, that's all it it takes. You know, it's not -- it lowers the bar in terms of like what do I have to do to help somebody. And anything we can do to to remove some stigma and and encourage people to talk more is is super helpful.
Merle Massie 28:06
When Liz was leading the play in Biggar, that's when she called me up was to come up and be Mrs. Patterson.
Elizabeth Nepjuk 28:06
Oh yeah1
Merle Massie 28:20
And I remember you know tromping up the stage and sitting down. And she's okay. Pull off your shoe because you're like you need a sock to make a sock puppet. And I looked at my sock, and I was actually wearing dog socks that day. There were little dogs all over my socks that day. I do
Elizabeth Nepjuk 28:38
I do remember that. That's awesome. You were a very good Mrs. Patterson.
Merle Massie 28:36
I don't remember a thing about what I said, but I do remember that I was wearing dog socks that day, so [laughter]. Have either of you had any comments, sort of a week or two or a month or so, you know, after the event? Has anyone reached back and said, you know, we're still talking about it, or this happened, or you know, these sorts of things? What are people saying?
Stephen Waldschmidt 29:02
We do have people who send us messages or post things on Facebook, not right after the show, but maybe a week later. We have had people give feedback even a couple of months later. I'll just read some of them. So this is a comment. 'I was riveted by the show. The experience transformed my understanding of what theatre can accomplish. Bravo and thank you.' There was a patron in one of the towns in Saskatchewan we went to said, 'as someone who has been struggling with mental health and have attempted suicide in the past, I found it amazing. My perspective has been altered.' And that I mean, that really, really meant a lot to me to to read that comment. It's not somebody who had to tell anything about that, right? And it's anonymous, but it's I don't mean to say that this theatre production will replace counselling, therapy or medication, not at all, anything like that. But does give you a different lens to look at, both like to see life through a lens of gratitude. But also to see, like, oh, I'm not alone, and like, yeah. There's one line Liz has that that I love. It's like, if you get to the end of your life...
Elizabeth Nepjuk 30:16
If you live a long life and get to the end without ever once having felt crushingly depressed, you probably haven't been paying attention.
Stephen Waldschmidt 30:26
Yeah, which just like anybody who feels like, oh, I'm the only one, you know, it's like, oh no, actually, no, one in one in three Canadians are going to experience this. Or walk alongside a best friend or spouse who's going to, you know, walk through depression. And it's the most treatable mental illness. Yeah, and I mean we we had there was one one who said 'I saw the audience' -- this is somebody who helped to bring it into their space -- 'I saw our audience being entertained, challenged, and healed. One of my favourite experiences in the theatre ever.' Somebody else was like, "When I hear people gush about shows, I try not to get my hopes up. But everything I'd heard about it paled in comparison to what was actually going on in the theatre. A show like this one scares me to death because of the the involvement. It asks a form of engagement I'm not often comfortable with, but this performer gave us the most generous, authentic experience of the story, and through it, her true, evident care for us and of us was was truly heroic."
Merle Massie 31:30
Overall, what do you think that those audience members who are coming to you and asking, "how do we get this show into our high school students?" What are they hoping for? What are they telling you?
Elizabeth Nepjuk 31:41
I think they're telling me they have a deep concern for their community and the youth in their community. I think they're telling me that they see a lot of people struggling. And I think they're telling me that they see the worth in a show that delivers a really important message with a hug and a smile. It's a lot easier to give a teenager an important message if you can do it in a disarming way. And I know that adults can feel that. And that they really want their kids to see this. Or they really want their grandkids to see this, or their nephews and nieces. And that speaks volumes to me because they're not concerned about these young folks not connecting with the older part of the story. They -- they want kids to see themselves reflected, and I think there's probably a lot of young people out there taking care of parents who aren't seeing their stories. And you can see it in their eyes when they're sitting in the audience and feel like they've been seen.
Merle Massie 32:55
Thank you for that. I'm curious to know if there's a community that's listening to this podcast and like, whoa, that sounds like a great play, and I want to bring it in, you know, and shape this hilarious, funny space to talk about some tough things around mental illness, around depression, around suicide. How does a community in say rural Nova Scotia or rural southern Ontario. How can they bring in Every Brilliant Thing? And what are your best practices for doing that?
Stephen Waldschmidt 33:29
I would recommend they reach out to their local theatre company, and I think for someone who's in a in a smaller centre, like reaching out to their local arts council would be a great place to start. And I, and I guess too like, we should give kudos to Duncan McMillan and Jonny Donahoe, the authors. And they created the show over like about a decade of performing it in different iterations and different ways of interacting with the audience, and yeah, it's it is really a remarkable, a remarkable piece.
Merle Massie 34:02
Well, we're really, really delighted to be able to showcase it and and shine a bit of a spotlight on it. And thank you so much for joining me on the Hay Are We Okay podcast.
Stephen Waldschmidt 34:15
Thanks for having me.
Elizabeth Nepjuk 34:16
Thank you.
Merle Massie 34:24
Elizabeth Nepjuk is a theatre artist. When I spoke with her, she was working at the Rosebud Theatre and School of the Arts in Southern Alberta. You can find her at nepjuk.art. Stephen Waldschmidt is the artistic director of Burnt Thicket Theatre in Saskatoon. I'll put contact links in our show notes. When we make a space for the conversation, magic things can happen. It reminds me of what Diane Bergsma said last season: "Together is a good place to be." If you have a local arts and culture group, ask them to bring in a show like Every Brilliant Thing, or the musical theatre play "I Am Enough", or the documentary "Deep Rooted". Go back to season one to hear more about those. Any show that opens space for you and the people around you to talk, to be safe, even when it's about tough things. Laughter and a good live performance have a way of opening us up, I'm here to share a story that I heard at Ag in Motion. A young man stopped by with his mum and was chatting with me, and I said, "I'd love to hear your story of things, fun things that you do on your farm." And at first, he couldn't think of anything. He's like, I'm just a farm kid, and his mom said, "Well, what about your dirt bike?" And his face lit up, and he said, "Oh, yeah!" And he goes, "So after I learned how to drive the tractor, Dad let me go out into the pasture, and what I did is that I made myself a dirt bike track. A dirt bike track for my dirt bike. It's so much fun. And we were both laughing. I thought that's a great way to spend your summer. And I said, "So, what do the cows think of your dirt bike trail?" And he got this big frown on his face. He says, "You know, sometimes they wreck it." Then his face lit back up again. He said, "But that means I get to fix it." Fabulous story. If you have a story of things that you do fun on your farm, whip out your phone, open up your voice notes app. Tell me who you are, where your farm is, and then send it in to us at feedback@domore.ag. Hay Are We Okay is brought to you by the Do More Agriculture Foundation, with generous support from the Agco. Foundation. Want to get in touch? Email feedback@domore.ag. That's feedback at domore.ag. I'm Merle Massie. Together, let's cultivate a culture where we ask, "Hey, Are We Okay?" And then do the things that help us say yes. We are okay. Because together is a good place to be.