For years, people in rural communities have known what time outdoors and work with animals can offer: purpose, connection, and a sense of belonging. In this episode, the Care Farming Network’s Kate Mudge explains how farms can make these experiences part of mental health care.
Merle then checks in with Deborah and David Cooper. The Toronto couple shares how their son Eli’s experience led them to create a supportive community for adults living with mental illness. “Eli’s Place” aims to bring together professional mental health, meaningful work, connection and belonging through a residential care farm model. . They recount the years of work involved in bringing this vision to life and their hope to make similar models available to families across Canada.
“Community is medicine,” said David Cooper. “We are hot wired to be together, not in isolation. ”
Across North America, “care farms” are offering new ways to support people experiencing mental health challenges, through connection, meaningful activities and community.. Hear why interest in creating and supporting these farms is growing, and what it might take to bring this approach to more communities.
Content note: This episode includes a personal story involving suicide loss. Please take care while listening. Support resources are available at domore.ag/crisis-contacts
We love hearing your ideas, comments, and stories. Get in touch with Merle by sending your e-mail or audio message to feedback@domore.ag.
Real the full transcript below
Deborah Cooper 0:00
He said, "This would be perfect. This is what I need. I need to live in a natural environment. I need to work hard. I need to have structure in my day. I need to grow and prepare my own food, and I need to live in community with others."
David Cooper 0:15
So these were all the principles that gave us the idea and that led us to discover that these farms exist.
Merle Massie 0:23
I'm Merle Massie, and this is Hey, Are We Okay? Have you ever wondered what you can do to make a difference for mental health in your community? Hey, Are We Okay is a podcast about ideas, things that people in rural communities are doing to grow a culture of well-being. We gather stories from around the corner and around the world. Everyday people like you and me out there making a difference. As a farmer living in rural Canada, I know how much community matters. These stories remind us that we all have something to offer. I hope they spark an idea of what's possible in your community. In this episode, care farms, farms that help us feel care, feel connected, feel worthy. There has always been the truth that living or working on a farm can help people find purpose. It can even help us heal. That's a different story than we often hear when it comes to farms and mental health. To put this picture together, I started by calling someone who can explain what care farms are.
Kate Mudge 1:54
Hello, I am Kate Mudge, and I am the co-director of Care Farming Network and joining you from my farm in western Minnesota,
Merle Massie 2:06
Kate. Can you explain to me, paint a picture for us? What is a care farm?
Kate Mudge 2:12
Absolutely, the origin or and the concept of care farming really does come out of Europe. Oftentimes, you'll hear them called green care farms or social care farms. We know that there's a lot of care farms all throughout the Netherlands, mostly western Europe, and they go way back to you know the 1800s where there was this idea that you could provide care on a farm, usually for mental health, oftentimes for people with disabilities, they've waxed and waned throughout the years, and we are really seeing a resurgence of care farms here in the United States. I would say for our country, you saw a lot of care farms operating out of mental health facilities, residential facilities. Many of those farms closed, as did the facilities, and now again we're seeing this resurgence of care farms here in the United States. But it's just kind of in our bones, right? I mean, the idea of care farms and working in nature and getting your hands in the soil or tending animals does us all good, so I guess we could say that care farming goes back as old as ancient civilization.
Merle Massie 3:29
Just brilliant. Why is mental health such a fit for a care farm? What do they do that's different?
Kate Mudge 3:38
So really, this idea of growing food or tending for animals and being responsible for and in community and communication with nature is just a wonderful boost for one's own physical and mental health. And so, a care farm that is going to support people who might have some mental health challenges, what that's going to look like on the farm is that the activities are going to be structured in order to bring about people's well-being and development. We like to say that the the farm work itself is the intervention and not just a backdrop. And so, I visited a farm recently just outside of Austin, Texas, Simple Sparrow Care Farm, beautiful setup. There's kind of two spaces. One where there's the farm itself, lots of chickens, goats, llamas, pigs, other poultry, and then there's this beautiful farmhouse, and they have licenced mental health practitioners who lease the space, and so they can see their clients one on one directly. But then they're taking their clients outside of that office, and they're going and doing things on the farm. Again, just not a backdrop for it. It's just that you have this like structured interactive, experiential thing, so that the animals, for instance, can help support regulation in your body. And you are just able to actually move around in ways and feel things through your body that might be a little bit more difficult sitting in a chair directly across from someone in kind of a traditional mental health setting,
Merle Massie 5:25
Moving people off the couch and off out of the office and and outside and and doing the the conversation and the care and the development and the regulation, as you say, there. Tell us more. What other care farms have you seen? Paint us a picture.
Kate Mudge 5:41
So another farm I really like talking about is GAAMHA, and they're located in Massachusetts. And they actually support people who are working through substance abuse disorder, and they have a both a programme for adult men as well as a programme for for youth, and the director there, Shawn Hayden, absolutely phenomenal man, went through treatment himself many times. Finally got it to stick. Now runs this this operation, and he talks about watching people come to the farm. And the first week, he says, "You're coming into a farm environment where you're not trusting yourself, and you're not necessarily trusting those that are there to help and support you. But when you go out to the barn and you're working with a rescued horse who has seen their own share of hardship, you know, who has the kind of that same parallel story of mistrust or distrust, and has been healed." Well, that animal doesn't care or judge you for anything that you're doing. And if you haven't been able to be responsible for yourself, but you can be responsible for a living being, oftentimes they won't even have their clients in traditional talk therapy for a week or two. Instead, they're just using this power of being in the barn and working with the animals to help kind of restore and balance people and give them this opportunity to have this connection, which they're really yearning for. So, and they're seeing wild success also in terms of the sobriety rate six months or a year after for their programme so.
Merle Massie 7:28
Tell me about what what kinds of people or or community will latch onto this idea of developing a care farm and and take it and run with it. What, what sorts of qualities do these people tend to have? And and then we'll talk about maybe some of the challenges and successes. But first, what are their qualities? What are they? What really brings people to the idea of a care farm?
Kate Mudge 7:51
Well, the beauty of our work is that we really don't have anybody saying like that's a horrible idea. You know, like yeah, regardless of where you are on your political spectrum or ideology, it's like, oh, yeah, that kind of makes sense. Whether or not you're what populations of folks you're working with, it's like not a hard sell. The people that we find like that are very interested in starting care farms, which we call aspiring care farmers are kind of coming from two places. Sometimes they're farmers themselves, and they're like, "Oh, yeah, I could not only do sort of traditional ag, but this is really cool. I could have a programme on my farm that helps support employing people, or you know, having having a care farm programme." There's also those that are coming at it more from maybe a background in social or human services, and I will say there's some burnout among nurses and doctors and social workers and occupational therapists. Occupational therapy actually came from farms. That's like how before it became clinical, like it was on farm work, and so we're seeing sort of this full circle of people who have the training and experience wanting to go back and say, "Gosh, I can still do what I'm doing, but there's an added benefit to doing it on a farm."
Merle Massie 9:16
That's just phenomenal. So, really, really hitting right across the spectrum. All right, what are some of the typical challenges that someone who wants to set up a care farm in their community? What are some of the challenges that they face?
Kate Mudge 9:28
Well, there's not really a roadmap for how to start a care farm, and it's wonderful. You know, there's there are a lot of very kind of scattered, isolated farms. When people find the network, one of the joys is hearing people say, "Gosh, I thought I was the only one doing this." It turns out there's like a bunch of other crazy people out here doing this, and so that's really exciting. I mean, right now here, at least in the United States, we are not our healthcare system. Is not aligned with our ag system in a way that funds and supports and sustains care farms, so that can be challenging, and that's something that we're working on through bringing research to show empirical, evidence-based rationale and and research and data, it says what we already know to be true, which is care farming works by kind of professionalising the field and showing that that research. We hope to to change some of that. We also know that like oftentimes care farms, you know, they're not necessarily a replacement for therapy or medication. They're a complement for working alongside clinical care, but the treatment is not necessarily ordinary. You know, it's very interactive and and looks a little bit different. So I think we have a ways to go to get buy-in for what care firming is and what it's doing, putting some guardrails around it to ensure that those who are doing this are doing it ethically, and just are connected to resources, either funding resources on this awareness piece that I've talked about, just the understanding that there's this added benefit of incorporating where we see agriculture and mental health sort of kind of coming together. So we're we're working on on introducing those two concepts as sisters instead of cousins,
Merle Massie 11:27
Or, or things that should be next to each other, not in two different fields far far away.
Kate Mudge 11:34
And yes, good use of fields there. I like that.
Merle Massie 11:38
These are
Kate Mudge 11:39
yes, combining fields make our acreage larger.
Merle Massie 11:42
Yes, no, I think that that's brilliant. How will things be different when there are care farms that are more common?
Kate Mudge 11:49
Well, right now I can tell you that the wait lists on care farms that are up and running and established is quite long. So what I really hope, although that can be heartbreaking for somebody that wants to get care on a farm, I think it is showing that the demand is there for the supply. But honestly, when people are hearing about care farms, and there's so many different ways to plug in, you can volunteer. You can. You don't have to start a care farm. You can work with a local agency. This is a great example. Like many people who are saying, "I want a care farm." I said, "Great, go find, do a landscape analysis of your community. Talk to maybe somebody and your mental health practitioners and say, 'Is there an appetite for this? Let me show you what it could look like.'" And those types of collaborations we see are kind of the way to the future.
Merle Massie 12:43
I think that that's absolutely brilliant and the way forward. Thank you for sharing that. So we have a Farm in the Dell in Saskatchewan, and the second one is just finished building here in the town that I live in in Biggar, Saskatchewan, and it's been such an amazing journey to watch the entire community come together and and support it financially, and they they put out things on Facebook like we need a we need a truck for the farm, we need this, we need that, and and stuff just started showing up. Or you know they they the RM built the road to get into you know where they decided the town gifted the land. Like it's just it's been a huge community endeavour and and and fascinating to watch because right all along you know in terms of you know all the different fundraising that they did to get off the ground and and how people would show up I was involved in some of the letter writing to make sure that the government was you know in support and so on. It's been an entire community production to get our Farm in the Dell up and running, and it's for people who have developmental disabilities. And it's it comes from the knowledge that when you grow up on a farm, you don't necessarily want to move into a care home, you know, in town, and you know, and think that good entertainment is to be in front of the television. If you've grown up being on the buddy seat with your dad in the tractor, okay, like that, that's that's good living to you, right? So you need to have a space that that reflects that, and that's the push and the energy that we've seen.
Kate Mudge 14:18
Yeah, well, one of the things that we note a lot is that you can look at a care farm, and oftentimes it's like what population is served? And there are care farms out there that are specifically, you know, catering to different populations, and there's reasons for doing so. I also think, to your point, this is a holistic caring on the farm. The staff, the volunteers, the community, oftentimes are going to get just as much support as the participants on a care farm, and so that value and the benefits really ripples out from the farm. And I think you see that in the support. Same thing here. I'm in western Minnesota on a farm, and any time that we do anything that is like. Remotely around supporting care farms in our area, the people that show up is just wild, and so from so many different spaces too. Care firms do not exist in isolation, and if you're going to promote well-being and you're going to decrease social isolation, then that means you are going to make your tent as big as possible. So,
Merle Massie 15:20
I think that's just just brilliant, Kate. Thank you so much for joining us on the Hey Are We Okay podcast.
Kate Mudge 15:28
Well, thank you for having me.
Merle Massie 15:30
Kate Mudge is the co-director of the Care Farming Network. We reached her in Minnesota. As Kate said, the Care Farm idea is taking off. It's a fit for different people in different ways. All coming back to this one key idea: the place where care is offered is also part of the story. Remember how Kate mentioned those who want to become care farmers, I wanted to bring in David and Deborah Cooper. They live in Ontario, and they're the founders of Eli's Place.
David Cooper 16:11
I'm David, Ellie's father.
Deborah Cooper 16:15
We, I am Eli's mom. My former career was as a public health nurse with the city of Toronto, and then I went into David's family business, and then we gave birth to two beautiful sons. Not at the same time; they're not twins. Eli is our eldest. He was born in 1979, and he died by suicide in 2010, just before his 31st birthday. So that's I've always been an active volunteer in the community. I really believe in doing what we can to make the world a better place and to provide comfort to people and sort of the nursing, you know, as part of one's life when come from that background. And Eli Cooper was the most amazing young man, you know, just one of these happy children. And as he became a teenager, he just was really bright and very artistic. And he taught himself guitar. He loved working with children. He loved to read, and he was loved language. Is just really talented and a beautiful, a beautiful young man, and and a wonderful friend to many. And in his late teens, it things became difficult. He found himself having symptoms of what we then became aware was depression and anxiety. He began to struggle at school, and this was a he was a kid that just could do anything, you know. Before the illness started setting in, and then life became harder to manage, and he struggled, and he started missing school, and he tried. He continued to try, and because I was, you know, a public health nurse, I knew how to access resources. We were able to get him into an adolescent clinic. We were able to find him a psychiatrist and programmes. But really, as he entered his early 20s, it really became more and more difficult. There were better moments. He was able to go to school part time. He was able to work part time, but in the end, he just could not surmount the the demons and the darkness and the symptoms that really took over his life. So you know that started us on a journey, and here we are today.
Merle Massie 18:46
That has that has started you on a journey, Deborah and David. Please tell us about Eli's place. What what is it? What is your vision for it, and how do you hope it will unfold here in Canada.
David Cooper 19:03
Eli's Place is a long-term, farm-based, therapeutic community for young adults living with serious mental challenges. Eli's Place brings clinic three things, three pillars: clinical care, meaningful work, and belonging together in everyday life. For young adults with serious mental illness, it'll be the only community of its kind in Canada. See, the farm is not scenery. The work is real, and it needs doing. The crops need tending, repairs to make, conservation work to be done. A community that depends on you turning up. That's where purpose. And routine take hold. Belonging is not a session that you attend; it's the culture of Eli's Place.
Deborah Cooper 20:10
We, after Eli died, we discovered these models, recovery-based models. We learned what recovery can be, and I often use the the comparison. If you were diagnosed with diabetes, you would immediately have access to all kinds of education, medications, lifestyle coaching, all kinds of strategies. So, and you could live well, even with diabetes. And the same can be true with many of the mental illnesses, right? With the right medication and a sense of belonging and community, yeah, the whole clinical care and a meaningful purpose in your life, you really can learn the strategies and have the tools to live a very worthwhile life and a full and productive one with wonderful relationships, and this is what we aimed for. And we discovered that there were these models elsewhere, all over the U.S., Australia, England, but nothing in Canada. And we were just astounded that this kind of care was not available to Canadians, that was unacceptable. So we decided we had to do something about it. And 15 years later,
David Cooper 21:29
Here we are. Here we are. And we visited a few of these farms in the states. And we're we're not reinventing the wheel here. We just take something that something that already works. You know, recovery is not the end of an episode or a symptom under control. It's the life you build and sustain over time, and so we're taking the Gould Farm model and we're augmenting it to Ontario needs and standards. And
Deborah Cooper 22:00
one thing when we chose Gould Farm, they were one of the farm-based recovery programmes that actually had done outcome studies through a university, and they were incredibly positive. Well over 80% of those guests who had left the farm at the end of their treatment programme actually had really productive lives. Were able to sustain relationships. There was what one or 2% recidivism. Like they never had to go back to hospitals. It was astounding, and and they were. It was almost too good to be true. And that's why we chose Gould Farm as the model that we would adapt for Canadians, you know, when it happened. We didn't realise it would take this long, but but here we are. And like you said, what is it? So this is like finally within the last few weeks, we can say it is because it was always in future tense, right?
David Cooper 22:58
Wow!
Deborah Cooper 22:59
So it was a dream. It was a vision. We knew what we wanted to see, and then suddenly we walk around pinching ourselves all day long because finally we have this gorgeous, gorgeous site. It's over 600 acres, and when we walked onto it, and in this relationship of this current working farm and inviting Eli's Place to look at it, you know, we had tried to do the model of purchasing land and building from scratch, and that was just not going to happen. So when we were approached with this possibility of using a currently working farm, who happened to be closing a retreat centre with 30 rooms, we just said, "Oh, this is too good to be true." Wonderful.
David Cooper 23:43
And the icing on the cake was the the the apple orchard and the 15 kilometres of walking trails, and it's idyllic. It's it's almost like manna from heaven that this came into our orbit.
And when we leave the city and drive out to the it's in north north end of Guelph. When we step out of the car and onto that land, there's this immediate sense of beauty and calm. And well, we know that your audience knows what it means to be in nature and working the land, right? So there's that immediate beautiful feeling
and and infinite possibilities. Yeah, you know it's it's hopeful. It's hopeful. You know the young adults that come to the farm will learn to take responsibility for themselves, for others, the land, and nature. And it's important to us not just to keep Eli's memory alive, and and this is his legacy, but for all of those that have gone too soon or those who are struggling.
Deborah Cooper 24:49
Would you like to know the backstory of how we even began to think about?
Merle Massie 24:53
Yes, that is exactly what I'd love to know.
Deborah Cooper 24:55
In Eli's last admission to hospital, and there were many, but the last. Last time he was in hospital, he met somebody who told him about WOOFing worldwide opportunities on organic farms. Apparently, all over the world, these places exist. It's a wonderful way to travel. You just work, you know, and your room and board are provided. So Eli heard about this, and he, he said, "This would be perfect. This is what I need. I need to live in a natural environment. I need to work hard. I need to have structure in my day. I need to grow and prepare my own food, and I need to live in community with others. So these were all the principles that gave us the idea and that led us to discover that these farms exist. The problem was when he went to the low to one in Ontario, they needed people who could work. It was not about recovery. It was not therapeutic. It was, it was a working farm. It was hard work, and he did not have the body strength after being in hospital for a year to cope, so it didn't last, but the idea of all those benefits of being on a farm and outdoors just seemed to make sense, and that was the beginning of the journey. The study we made, yeah, and then we commissioned this study. We discovered there were 33 or 34 models all over the world, and and then we eventually chose Gould Farm, and we went to visit a few, and yes, and so the mission began.
Merle Massie 26:25
Deborah and David, what were all the steps that you guys have had to go through to get to this moment?
David Cooper 26:33
Well, the first step was to surround ourselves with like-minded people and people that shared the vision and mission with us.
Deborah Cooper 26:41
Yeah, it's it's amazing. If you told us 15 years ago, this like we started the project within the year after Eli died. If you told us then what it would take, I don't know if we'd be here today. But it's there was a lot of learning, a lot of networking, a lot of selling our concept to the whole mental health space, meeting with therapists and psychiatrists and social workers and foundations and government and yeah, that little group around the kitchen table expanded to a phenomenal leadership team. We had to learn all about governance and you know all the rules and bylaws and CRA and
David Cooper 27:21
I just want to be a farmer!
Deborah Cooper 27:24
And we thought we were. Yeah, he wanted to be a farmer, and I thought we were going to be retiring, but that didn't happen either. This is our life passion at this point, and COVID didn't help. I have to tell you that that certainly slowed us down and increased the need dramatically. So, but we've really taken it from there.
Merle Massie 27:45
I want to imagine that I'm a young person, and whether I come from a farm or or maybe I come from the city, but I've been accepted into the program at Eli's Place. What will that look like for me?
Deborah Cooper 27:58
So you will be invited to come to Eli's Place for a two-week period to really get a sense of what the program is about, who the people are, you'd have a chance to talk about your expectations and also hear about what the expectations of the program are, what you need to know, where you'd be living. There'd be a trial period to be out on the every day. There'll be working teams going out to work the land. We also will be offering adjunct therapies like music and art and yoga, and it's a very well-rounded program. You'll be dining with the community and helping out with all the various chores, so I would hope that when that young person steps through the door, they experience a sense of welcoming, of a place where they feel they could be and thrive, and hope to gain a sense of wellness and strength and recovery over a period of time. What makes us unique is it's a long-term program. We're talking about approximately a six-month stay, and all the other programs in our experience were six weeks, perhaps or eight weeks, and then you're discharged back to where you came from. And the other unique aspect of the our model is that there are up to two years of transition care after you leave the farm, so that you are followed by a worker care coordinator who knows you, who's been working with your family, who can help to coordinate all of the resources you need back in your community,
David Cooper 29:42
And that care worker starts from day one.
Right.
So this continuity of care through the six month to nine month or a year, as long as they want to stay at the farm until the transition phase as well.
Yep. So when they enter, you know, they will clearly know that they will. Dependent upon the community will depend upon them to do the share of work. We will be starting wherever they can start. You know, wherever they're capable, it will be a growth experience, and they'll be part of this community. I think there'll be a sense of caring among all of the guests who will be with us.
Because the bottom line is, the community is medicine. We are hot wired to be together, not in isolation. These young adults have been isolated for too long to bring people together. All pulling together, we're all working together. The real work needs doing. We're all in it together,
Deborah Cooper 30:46
And caring for each other. You know, this is something that really does happen. When we went to visit Gould Farm, we couldn't we couldn't really tell who were guests and who were staff. I mean, it was such a beautiful community. You know, and and everybody brought strengths to the to the community and benefit from it.
Merle Massie 31:04
Let's imagine that there's a person, a family member, of someone who they think you know this might be the exact right thing that my person needs. How much does it cost? Are they paying out of pocket? Who pays for it? I have so many questions.
David Cooper 31:21
So we, in order to exist, we have to be established, and it is going to be a private facility initially. We have no way around it. We are fundraising, doing our best to cover as many costs of the launch as possible. It will open as a private facility to families at this point, a number of years up the road, we hope it is accessible to everyone. We would love to have a foundation or endowment to make this accessible to all.
And excuse me, and OHIP beds as well.
Deborah Cooper 31:54
So we're anticipating government funding, but in terms of out of province, we fully expect that families will be seeking care at Eli's Place from out of province, and I think that it you know it will be expensive to an average family, but we are certainly within the ballpark, if not a little less, from all of the private rehab facilities that are currently exist. We will be less expensive, significantly less expensive than than a young person going to the United States for care, where they are now often having to go because there's nothing here. So, we're doing our best, and you know, to make it something for anyone who needs it.
Merle Massie 32:38
Thank you for that. I want you to imagine yourselves in 10 years' time, thinking about Ellie's place. What do you see?
David Cooper 32:49
Well, I'll be 90, so I hope I can see. Certainly, I hope I'm mobile, but I'm a positive person. The glass is generally full, or or at least more than half full. I I go back to what one government official said to us eight years ago. This is the best. The recovery model is the best model that she had ever seen, and this is exactly what Ontario needs and whatever government is in power at the time when you get open, they will have to fund you once you show outcome studies. And the other thing she said was create a template so the other provinces can open up many, many Eli's Places, so we can all benefit by what works.
I hope we're here together still. Maybe more opportunities to relax in between meetings. Oh, I love it! You know
We're together 60 years, coming up 55, married. So yeah, I hope we're together 10 years from now. She renews my contract
Deborah Cooper 34:06
In ten years. I truly hope to also have good health, but I also hope that we that there are fewer desperate parents looking for care that doesn't seem to exist. We all know what it's like going through the revolving door of care and in and out, and realising there's nothing there. And what do we do? Is a horrible, helpless feeling. And I just hope there are a lot fewer parents experiencing that because there are more Eli's Place models in Canada available, affordable, accessible, so that young people struggling with mental illness will have an opportunity to learn how to live well, even with their illness in a community. Yeah, with love and support from their families and their friends and their communities. So I hope that it is a model of care that is available, and it would just give us tremendous gratification knowing that we could even have saved one life and made life better for many.
David Cooper 35:23
Nice.
Merle Massie 35:24
I love that. It is. It's. I keep coming back. My brain keeps coming back again. Community is medicine. Community is medicine. How do we build that community and and what this looks like? I I think the vision that you've presented to us around Eli's Place, it really sings. It sings to my heart. I'm sure that it will sing to any of our listeners, and I hope that others pick up on that. If, if our audience members, if the those who are listening to this particular podcast, if they remember one thing from our conversation today, what would you want it to be?
David Cooper 36:01
I would like them to know that recovery is possible, that care is there, and those who are struggling to know there is hope, and that others do care desperately, that we are able to provide what is needed. Yeah, so we're grateful for all those people who have been around us for all these years and who've made it possible. The proverbial village, right? It takes the village, and we have an amazing village, an amazing leadership team, talent that just keeps arriving on our doorstep just when we need them, and generosity beyond belief. So, yeah, we're very, very grateful.
Merle Massie 36:45
Well, I'm just so pleased. Thank you so much for saying yes and joining us today on the Hay Are We Okay podcast.
Deborah Cooper 36:52
Thank you. Thanks, Merle.
David Cooper 36:54
Thank you for the opportunity.
Merle Massie 36:58
Deborah and David Cooper are the founders of Eli's Place. It's a care farm north of Guelph, Ontario, opening this fall. I'll put links to Eli's Place and to the Care Farming Network in our show notes. Before we go, one more quick story about why living in the country is just plain fun.
Maggie 37:22
Hi, it's Maggie Van Camp. One thing we do on our farm, Red Crest Farms, that is lots and lots of fun is to play volleyball. About 16 or 17 years ago, my husband built us a beach court, and since then, it's been our go-to for good times, sometimes it gets pretty competitive, but it's always lots of fun to play beach volleyball on our farm.
Merle Massie 37:50
Thanks, Maggie. If you've built something at your place that makes living on your farm more fun, we want to hear about it. Grab your voice recorder, hit the big red record button, and email feedback at do more.ag. I hope you enjoyed that conversation, and that it sparked an idea, something you can try in your community. If you know someone who should hear this episode, send them the link and leave us a review. We would love to hear what you think. Hay Are We Okay is brought to you by the Do More Agriculture Foundation with generous support from the Agco Foundation. I'm Merle Massie. Together, we ask, "Hey, Are We Okay?" Because together is a good place to be.